Performing Femininity
Jun. 7th, 2011 01:20 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
apple_pathways(Disclaimer: Dudes, I want your opinions, too. I know there's, like: two of you who read my journal regularly. But don't feel left out if it seems I'm only talking to the ladies!)
The subject has come up elsewhere, and it's been on my mind recently: what is femininity? Is it the traditional, stereotypical traits that have historically been prized in women? (And in whose history?) Has the definition evolved significantly over time, or are we still stuck in an antiquated frame of mind? Which qualities are absolutely necessary in order to be considered feminine, and which are optional?
Are you offended when certain traits, interests, or qualities are described as masculine or feminine? As for myself, whenever I've taken any sort of "Male or Female" brain test, I've always skewed slightly toward the masculine side of the scale. (Including when I took such a test in college as a research participant for credit in my psychology class.) It does bother me when people say I "think like a guy", but I do realize that when it comes to science, they're speaking about statistical norms, which I'm cool with, because I like math. :P (Even though, as a child, I got much more attention for my writing abilities than I did my mathematical skill.)
(If anyone else is interested in taking a test based on "male vs. female" brain science, here's a really good one from the BBC. Save it for when you have some time, though, as there are multiple parts. Though I do believe you can save each section as you finish.)
[Poll #1749763]
Also, I'd like to know: how well do you fit into (what you perceive to be) your culture's definition of 'masculine' or 'feminine'? What do you think of others who are unable to adhere to your culture's rules? How many of the differences between men and women come from biology, and how many are culturally constructed?
I'll provide my own responses once I've had some sleep!
The subject has come up elsewhere, and it's been on my mind recently: what is femininity? Is it the traditional, stereotypical traits that have historically been prized in women? (And in whose history?) Has the definition evolved significantly over time, or are we still stuck in an antiquated frame of mind? Which qualities are absolutely necessary in order to be considered feminine, and which are optional?
Are you offended when certain traits, interests, or qualities are described as masculine or feminine? As for myself, whenever I've taken any sort of "Male or Female" brain test, I've always skewed slightly toward the masculine side of the scale. (Including when I took such a test in college as a research participant for credit in my psychology class.) It does bother me when people say I "think like a guy", but I do realize that when it comes to science, they're speaking about statistical norms, which I'm cool with, because I like math. :P (Even though, as a child, I got much more attention for my writing abilities than I did my mathematical skill.)
(If anyone else is interested in taking a test based on "male vs. female" brain science, here's a really good one from the BBC. Save it for when you have some time, though, as there are multiple parts. Though I do believe you can save each section as you finish.)
[Poll #1749763]
Also, I'd like to know: how well do you fit into (what you perceive to be) your culture's definition of 'masculine' or 'feminine'? What do you think of others who are unable to adhere to your culture's rules? How many of the differences between men and women come from biology, and how many are culturally constructed?
I'll provide my own responses once I've had some sleep!
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2011-06-07 06:02 am (UTC)I'll tell you what came to mind /right away/ when you said "feminine". Emotional, sensitive, physically weaker than men (my mind is going to very strange places). Uhm, you opened the subject of reproduction, but I'm a little embarrassed to admit I thought of that.
The thing is, I love challenging my idea of gender. I think why that third one up there came in so quickly is because I'm reading a book about a character called Tara Chace who is anything but the conventional interpretation of feminine... and yet, to me, anyway, is clearly and definitely a woman.
She smokes, drinks, keeps her emotions tightly controlled, and she's a SPY. She assassinates a lot of people.
Women are capable of anything men are, dammit.
no subject
Date: 2011-06-07 06:04 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-06-07 03:36 pm (UTC)This helps a lot! I used to be a women's studies minor, and it's ridiculous, but the more you study gender and gendered traits, the harder they are to define! (Just as Miss
But I suspect most people are like you: they're able to point to specific ideas they've picked up over time about what makes someone feminine or masculine.
I appreciate your willingness to challenge gender concepts. :D Really, it's not as scary as many people find it to be.
no subject
Date: 2011-06-07 06:31 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-06-07 08:12 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-06-07 03:43 pm (UTC)The thing is, I kind of wanted to force people to think of gender as a binary division, because that's the way it's presented to us by society. (At least on the surface! There are plenty of contradictions we're sold, but they're rarely acknowledged as such.) Mostly, I'm interested in how comfortable people are in choosing one label over another, and if they're uncomfortable, why they're uncomfortable. How flexible do people find these terms to be? How much are we willing to bend the terms before they break?
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Date: 2011-06-07 09:38 am (UTC)But that's not why I haven't done the survey - it's honestly because I cannot think of a single quality by itself that is either masculine or feminine. I mean, I'm not going to say there is no such thing - because there are feminine people and masculine people, but it's not something I can point to as 'this is what makes me think this'.
I wonder if it's not maybe the way certain qualities interact with each other? Forgive me, this is just-woken-up critical thinking, here.
no subject
Date: 2011-06-07 01:39 pm (UTC)I don't have any problems with my gender identitity, I'm very comfortable with mine. But I still found those ticky boxes very hard. I can't imagine what it must have been like for you.
no subject
Date: 2011-06-07 03:54 pm (UTC)The poll is really just a tool to get people thinking about gender. I find there's no better way to get people thinking about something than to force them to choose between ticky boxes!
no subject
Date: 2011-06-07 03:46 pm (UTC)That's exactly the problem I had when making this survey! I thought: I know certain things are considered to be masculine or feminine, but I can't point to any single characteristic (or group of characteristics) that's absolutely essential to defining the terms.
I wonder if it's not maybe the way certain qualities interact with each other?
I think you're definitely onto something there! Let me know if you develop your theory further.
There's a lot more I want to say to you, but I think I'll be covering it in other comments, so if you'd care to browse, I think you'll get a fuller picture of what I'm on about with this post!
no subject
Date: 2011-06-07 12:03 pm (UTC)and I hate the show sex and the city because i share a name with one of the characters...
no subject
Date: 2011-06-07 03:55 pm (UTC)Look, i'm replying, as promised!
Date: 2011-06-10 07:13 pm (UTC)I can look 'girly' when I want to, and I think my small frame has people automatically think i'm some girly girl. And then I start talking about Indy racing or politics and they just stare at me. I also lean towards the masculine side of characteristics; my female heroes are Tina Fey/Liz Lemon, Jessica Hynes and Amy Pond.
I think the qualities of femininity have changed over time, yet somehow there are still unspoken qualities that society think is o.k. to assume (we must all think about shopping 24/7, we get together and diss men, etc).
Re: Look, i'm replying, as promised!
Date: 2011-06-10 08:10 pm (UTC)Yes, defining femininity is extremely difficult, and often very limiting. In general, I have no issues with being a woman: I mean, consider the alternative. ;) (I know, I know...bad joke is bad!) But then I'm a rather outspoken sort of person who expects to be listened to, and it's rather frustrating when I'm just...not.
Ah! Another Samantha! (There's another on my flist.) Samantha is a great name, though: you get to go by Sam! (I'm obsessed with nicknames, because I've never had a proper one. "Ames" doesn't count!)
I like how far women can bend the idea of femininity to suit themselves. Of all the women who've responded here, almost none of them weren't able to identify at least on major breach in Girly 101. And yet: women are still punished for falling too far outside the bounds. I'm really interested: what is the final straw? How far can you bend the definition of femininity and what it means to be a woman before it breaks?
no subject
Date: 2011-06-07 12:47 pm (UTC)I have never felt constricted by all of this. I love being a girly girl. But I am lucky to be surrounded by people who recognize that femininity does not equal a lack of strength. I've never been denied a job because of my girliness, nor has anyone ever assumed that I wasn't strong enough to do something (physically or emotionally) because I'm a woman. Only once in my life have I ever felt discriminated against because I'm a female, and that ultimately was that man's problem rather than mine.
As a matter of fact, I worry more about how society's view of masculinity affects my boyfriend. In appearance he is extremely masculine, but he's much more emotional than the typical man is permitted to be. Part of the reason we aren't engaged yet is because of societal pressures on a man to be capable of being the sole provider for a family. He allows others' perceptions of what a man should be to influence him strongly, because he's aware that in many ways he "falls short" of those expectations. That bothers me much more than the expectations of femininity in my own life.
ETA: Took the test. Got a 50 on the feminine side. Not surprised in the least.
no subject
Date: 2011-06-07 04:07 pm (UTC)I also love children (especially babies!); have chosen a very feminine career (social work); love girly things like gardening, cooking, knitting, and crafting; and I'm extremely empathetic.
However, I am also quite aggressive/assertive; fiercely independent to the point of shunning help/support from others; and I am intensely logical to the point of driving most people mad. (I can see the emotional side of a situation, but I am much more likely to adhere to logic and desire others to do the same.)
I definitely struggle with how people perceive me as a woman. When I was taking classes in the fall, they were all extra requirements outside of my social work program, and it was the first time in quite awhile that I was in a class that wasn't dominated by women. Whenever we did group work, I would take the lead, as I would naturally do. Even though most group members had no problem with it, and acknowledged I was probably the best person for the job, with certain men in the group I would meet this--resistance. Where they would try to talk over me, bringing up issues we'd already discussed or throwing out ideas that didn't make any sense when the rest of the group had already settled on a course of action. (One suggested by me, naturally. :P) At first I was just confused, but then I realized: they were challenging my authority. (Which is fine, I'm not a dictator: they just seemed to be challenging me for the sake of challenging me, and not because they felt they had something better to contribute.)
Anyway. People often describe me as a 'strong personality', which I find only mildly offensive, as it's often coded to mean 'bitch'. I'm not a bitch. I'm just extremely confident and assertive in ways that people aren't used to from women.
no subject
Date: 2011-06-07 01:33 pm (UTC)Angles, 15/20, equally male/female
Spot the difference, 64%, balanced male/female brain (2% off more female)
I'm right-brain dominant
Empathising - more female (higher score)
Systemising - exactly half-way between the male and female score
Eyes - 9/10 - very good at reading emotions (average is 6.6)
Finger ratio - .96, which is lower than the average for men
Faces - I prefer more masculine faces (I knew this!)
Words - my score was 25! I would hope so for a writer (average for females was 12).
So, I mostly tilt to a female brain, but intellectually, I'm neutral. I think that's really true of me. I was a good all-rounder at school - loved science and was good at it, but also verbose and creative. I wonder how much of this is nurture, as well as nature. I was encouraged as a child to be good at 'boy' things as well as 'girl' things, and enjoyed both equally. You'll see it in the way I dress, too. Typical winter fare is big boy boots, low-slung looser jeans, with a pretty top and bright lipstick.
I'm impressed with the test - it really works.
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Date: 2011-06-07 03:51 pm (UTC)I'd have to take the test again to remember exactly how I scored in each area, but I can only imagine I'd be skewing even further to the male side, since I tutor math as a profession now and will only have increased my scores in some of the mathematical/spatial reasoning areas. (This is one of the problems I have with IQ tests now--I spend my days doing math and teaching kids to recognize patterns, so I tend to know those questions out of the park, whereas I might not do some well if I weren't practicing on a daily basis. These are unofficial IQ tests, of course.)
no subject
Date: 2011-06-07 01:37 pm (UTC)In particular, I totally truckled on the last question--in various contexts, I have thought all of them.
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Date: 2011-06-07 04:09 pm (UTC)So, I look forward to your ideas when you have the time. :D
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Date: 2011-06-07 04:19 pm (UTC)Took the test and scored pretty much slap bang on the average male score. This did surprise me a little bit as I don't see myself as the manliest man in the world. However, I think that's more of a conscious effort on my part because a lot of people traditionally seen as extremely masculine are (in my experience) Total B******s.
I like to think I'm better than most men at reading emotions though so was pleased to have scored highly on that. I hate the suggestion that I'm In Touch With My Feminine Side or whatever they say these days - I see it more as never having let go of my childhood perspective. I think the differences in mindset between genders during childhood are somewhat less clear cut. Agree? Disagree? Teacher's viewpoint?
It's fine making these distinctions based on all these things, but my preferences in other people are mostly based on behaviour.
(the following not aimed at anyone in particular, but the way you put it got me thinking):
If you're a girl and you Think Like A Guy, that's fine, and probably a bonus and a lot of fun once I get to know you. But please just behave like a girl. Because you are one.
Same applies in reverse for men. Skills such as motor maintenance are irrelevant.[hides]
I hope this has been vaguely comprehensible.
Stewart
no subject
Date: 2011-06-07 04:52 pm (UTC)The 'male vs. female' brain test doesn't have much to do with 'manliness' or 'girliness'. It's all about brain science: the measurable differences between male and female brains and how they are at performing certain tasks. Statistically, men will perform slightly better on certain tasks, and women will perform slightly better at others. However, if you look at the data, you'll notice that the average differences are fairly small: so small, in fact, that trying to use them as a standard to determine whether any particular man or woman would be better at a task is a pretty worthless pursuit.
Anyway.
I think the differences in mindset between genders during childhood are somewhat less clear cut.
I...don't know. It's quite hard to tell! Children tend to have much more rigid definitions of what is 'girly' and what is 'boyish' than adults to. (To the point that my younger male students will avoid using the red marker because it's a "girl color".) From a very young age, they pick up ideas of what it means to be a boy and what it means to be a girl, and it starts shaping their behavior. (It is true that very small boys are free to be more emotionally expressive than their older counterparts, if that's what you mean.)
If you're a girl and you Think Like A Guy, that's fine, and probably a bonus and a lot of fun once I get to know you. But please just behave like a girl. Because you are one.
Oh darling, you've opened up a whole can of worms here! I almost feel like throwing myself over you like a human shield to protect you from the fallout... :P
Instead, I'll just ask: what it does mean to behave like a girl? Who gets to decide? And what should happen if I find that definition too restrictive?
no subject
Date: 2011-06-07 05:57 pm (UTC)I'll take that human shield now, thanks for the thought!
First off, let's make it clear that whatever I say, it's going to be purely from my position, with my cultural norms and experiences and that I am probably a terrible ambassador for men (I'm much too young for a start).
I suppose what I mean is that I get uncomfortable when people are actively seeking to challenge others' established gender roles for the sake of it. The (related) issue of sexual orientation has a role to play there as well, but it is often overstated and I don't want to go into that because it's not what this discussion is about.
To dramatically simplify things, if a girl has a more "masculine" personality, whatever that means, I take no issue. If they try to force upon me that girls can only be desirable or interesting or intelligent or generally worth knowing if they sacrifice traditional feminine appearance/priorities/behaviour, that's when I get a bit... yeah.
I like nerd ladies. No-one really wants to hang around with a brainless Barbie for very long do they? You can be nerds and into comics or maths or sci-fi as much as you like. In fact that's great. But I will still hold the door open for you or offer to carry heavy things for you. That's all I'm saying.
Re: the question of who gets to decide what constitutes feminine behaviour, etc.
I think it should be a personal thing. I get to decide for myself what I like/dislike/am willing to overlook in the name of friendship or love or whatever, but I will not challenge anyone about their personalities or tell them they'd be "better" if they acted in what I perceive to be a more feminine manner. This is because my belief that one's own established gender identities should not be forced on others (which I mentioned earlier) goes both ways. Likewise you get to decide for yourself.
I really don't want to upset people. I really don't. Please don't hurt me. Hope this has put things across a bit more clearly. [returns to relative safety behind human shield just in case]
no subject
Date: 2011-06-07 06:27 pm (UTC)Of course everyone gets to decide for themselves what qualities they will appreciate in others. The important thing, as you stated, is that everyone gets to decide for themselves what 'behaving like a woman' or 'behaving like a man' means. (Of course, I'm not so naive as to believe it really works that way: but it is a good ideal to strive for.)
All I will say on the 'holding the door for women' issue is this: holding the door open for a woman (hell, for anyone) is a nice thing to do. It's something men are taught to do for women as a sign of respect. However: it is only a sign of respect if you actually respect the woman. Holding a door does not magically make you a gentleman any more than letting the woman open the door for herself makes you a cad! (Food for thought! :P)
Anyway, as always I appreciate your input! I don't think you're alone in feeling the way you do. It's a confusing issue, to be certain.
no subject
Date: 2011-06-07 06:03 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-06-07 06:34 pm (UTC)Ay, that's the rub, isn't it? As I sit here in my layered skirt and floral top, I can't say I have much of an issue with my own 'femininity'. (Good lord, I can't wait to stop typing that word! I can never seem to get the right number of 'N's in!) But when I run into someone who thinks that because I'm a woman with a girly demeanor that means I'm going to accept whatever they say without an argument...yeah, that gets to me. I can't stand to be dismissed, and I can't help but wonder if that's the price I pay for enjoying cute shoes and shiny hair?
And what's getting to me more and more as I approach my 30th birthday is how often I'm still treated as a 'girl'--talked down to and dismissed by older men. While my social conditioning has taught me to be flattered to be still considered 'young', my pride and intellectual vanity would like to point out that I am far from being a 'girl', thank you very much, and I would appreciate it if you would speak to me as an adult!
no subject
Date: 2011-06-08 12:34 am (UTC)I'm definitely "feminine" in the sense of the life choices I've made and the way I relate to situations and people. I've never had any issues with identifying with one gender over the other, and I certainly have no misgivings about being female.
On the other hand, there are days when I feel like I'm less feminine than most of the women I know. For example (and this seems to be true for a lot of people around LJ, fwiw) I have a fairly analytical mind which is given more to problem-solving and less to empathy (and this was borne out by the test as well, fwiw). I'm also definitely more techie than fuzzy, although this may be a reflection of my educational and career choices more than anything else.
I feel restricted by my gender in a very specific way. I'm a sports fan, and nobody takes my sports opinions at all seriously. The assumption, of course, is that I've never played football and therefore, any opinion I have on the sport must be suspect. :( I resent this HARD, but there's not a lot I can do about it. I feel like there are insidious forms of the same sort of discrimination happening in the workplace as well (and not just to me). It's why women hit that ceiling so much faster, despite trying to "out-guy" their guy colleagues. *sigh* Maybe that's a debate for another day, lol.
no subject
Date: 2011-06-08 02:00 am (UTC)Oh yes, I can definitely relate.
I have a very strong emotional intelligence, and no problem relating to people of all sorts of backgrounds. However (and this is a big however): for myself, I tend to prefer logic to an emotional reaction.
One of my best friends is the opposite. We've spent many a late night discussing difference ideas and issues, and inevitably, when trying to talk me down from whatever stubborn viewpoint I've chosen to adopt for the evening, she'll say to me: "But Amy, most people just don't look at things that way!" Agreed! And that is what's wrong with the world. :P
Ugh, I can see how maddening it would be to be a female sports fan. I grew up around sports, and understand how most of them work. I can watch a football or baseball game and know exactly what's going on; occasionally, I can even persuade myself to care! But men have a hard time believing I really do understand what's going on.
Are you an NFL fan? I used to watch college (U of M, natch) but gave it up. :P
no subject
Date: 2011-06-08 01:36 am (UTC)I'm having trouble articulating everything I want to say about the ticky-boxes, so I'm going to talk about the brain-gender quiz. I ended up taking it twice. In part because I misread the instructions on one part (stupid commas), but mostly because composite faces creep me the heck out and I wanted to see if I'd have an easier time with women (I didn't. In the end, it became a test of which choice was less cringe-worthy... agh, I fail so hard at that part. Apparently I like more feminine features, but I could've just told them that and spared myself the frightening pictures.) Anyway: I kept all the rest of my answers the same, other than that part, so at least I wasn't technically cheating, just exploring the test (or something).
But the part that actually confuses me is the systemizing part. Because that was set up like one of those middle-school "What should your career be?" kinds of quizzes, and 1) those are easy-as-heck to cheat at and 2) they're almost always wrong. For example, apparently I'm just one point shy of being good at analyzing and building systems... when in fact, I am just interested in systems. I can memorize them and learn them and I really like them, but I'm not as much into creating them, nor am I particularly good at creating them (also, I suspect my affinity for maps is more to do with knowing which objects go where than it does with the angles test. I tend to use maps to find landmarks I can navigate by (even if those landmarks are intersections) more than I use them for figuring out the shape of my route or where streets intersect or whatever the proper use is.) I also tend to wonder what the "typical" way of doing the spot-the-difference test was. Because I made up mini-stories about clumps of objects so I could just match up stories instead of objects (the bear was lifting barbells, which was hanging out with the binoculars because they're both binary and all the rounded edges were having a tea party that the suitcase interrupted. Most of the rest were kind of boring--drinking while on the telephone ended up staying the same after the switch, but it got less classy.) So really, I suspect my 86% on that one had more to do with memory tricks than any particular skill at spacial relations.
The funny part is, when I didn't screw up the word association game with my lack of commas, I scored exactly in the middle. But once I threw my full 24 words at it, I ended up at the 50 mark for feminine. Which actually surprises me a bit, because I beat the male average pretty badly at the angles and systemizing, tied them on the shapes... and I prefer feminine features. Does my vocabulary really have that much more to do with things (I mean... yes, I am quite fond of it, but really...)
I guess, all in all, I do consider myself more feminine than masculine. I'm not a really emotional person, but that's more a state of being than a gender-choice... I coo at things and wave at children and indulge in plenty of other girly nonsense. But then I wear nothing but pants and bike everywhere and am actually kind of proud when I end up muddy/dirty/covered in chain grease/sopping wet from unexpected rain... and I'm not a huge fan of chocolate (which in some circles is an automatic rejection from the girl club). And then I have issues like today, when I biked the 7 miles home in hazy 95-degree heat, stumbled dripping into my apartment, and then managed to sprain my thumb trying to get my sports bra off. How does one classify that as far as femininity/masculinity goes? Sweaty, questionably-sane, jock-like... followed by a klutzy bra-related injury, which just screams "hapless nerdling girl." I just don't know. Obviously society is not quite set up for me. (-;
no subject
Date: 2011-06-08 02:13 am (UTC)Anyway, when I confessed all this during my exit interview, they were forced to throw out my results as 'biased'. Oops!}
Also: it's harder to measure the more extreme ends of the scales. Particularly, the smarter you are or the better you are at a particular task, the harder it's going to be to measure exactly how good you are. So yeah, I'm not surprised you were unsatisfied with your results!
The test doesn't really measure 'masculinity' or 'femininity' in the cultural sense. Instead, research has determined that there's a slight difference in the abilities of men and women to perform certain intellectual tasks. Women tend to score slightly better on verbal tasks and have bigger vocabularies, hence they will come up with more synonyms during the vocab test. It's doesn't mean you're 'girly': just that your brain tends to behave in a way that's been statistically determined to be indicative of the female sex! :P
It's been more than a year (maybe two?) since I've taken the test, and don't remember what the 'systemizing' task was like. Refresh my memory?
no subject
Date: 2011-06-08 03:02 am (UTC)The 'systemizing' task wasn't really a task. The questions were mixed in with the 'empathizing' questions in the "Do you agree/slightly agree/etc." section. I can see that format working for empathy, since it's something that's internal--it is what you think--but systems are something inherently external. Though I guess they don't have to be--you can imagine your own systems to organize the world... but most of the questions had to do with things like maps and stereos, rather than a desire to organize the world internally, so from certain angles it boiled down to a "Girl interests and boy interests!" sort of section.
It does kind of make me curious how much of the feminine vs. masculine brain aptitude is hormonal, as opposed to inherent (genetic) brain structure (and this may be a shortcoming on my part--I dunno how much of brain structure is affected by hormones during development), as opposed to practice and learning. Surely someone somewhere has done this kind of test on transsexuals before and after hormone therapy (but I'm not having an easy time finding it. Also, the only study wikipedia mentions on transsexual brain chemistry only studied MTF transsexuals.) And how do you even design a brain-workings test that doesn't end up biased by the masculine/feminine in society vs. masculine/feminine in the... er... brain. (Methinks the problem here is that they called the two types of thinking after the sexes they are most often seen in. But then that comes back to how much of it really is genetically/hormonally ingrained. ... I'm not entirely sure where I'm headed with this, so I'm going to finish this comment so I can skip to your other comment and complain about bras some more.)
no subject
Date: 2011-06-08 04:23 am (UTC)I don't remember what they were on about with the finger lengths, but my index and ring fingers are pretty much the same length, with my index finger on my right hand being slightly longer. (Am I a freak?) I have a brother, but he's younger. I do remember that having older brothers is a (slight) predictor for being gay for men. Interestingly, my aunt has 3 sons, but it's the oldest who's gay. /anecdotal evidence
I know that hormones do play quite a significant part in brain development in utero, but I don't know much of an effect they have after that. If you find the sort of studies you're looking for, I'd be interested to know. (I wonder if I can still log into EMUs databases? I'll have to try that out later.)
no subject
Date: 2011-06-08 02:14 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-06-08 03:07 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-06-08 04:25 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-06-08 04:40 am (UTC)Dear God were some of those faces in the "attractiveness" part scary looking, though. *shudders* I was a little disappointed with how limited the choices were in that part. I identify as pansexual, because attraction for me is more about someone's personality than their gender. (Not that I'm one of those crazy "EVERYONE IS BEAUTIFUL!!!!" people, because goddamn there are some ugly people in the world - inside and outside - but ugly and beautiful are both subjective) The test said that I prefer feminine looking people, and sure I do - sometimes. But I also like masculine features, and people who look like they could be either gender or neither, and there wasn't really an option for that.
As for how I fit into the traditional "feminine" girl - I do and I don't, I guess. I paint my nails, I wear jewelry every day, but I don't put makeup on very often and I pretty much live in jeans and a tshirt. I would be just as happy going to a baseball game as I would shopping. My mom was pretty cool about letting me play with whatever toys I wanted growing up instead of only picking "girl" toys like my grandparents insisted. So when I was a kid I played with dolls and with toy cars in the dirt. :) My parents were really great about letting me choose for myself instead of only allowing me to do or have or be "girly" things.
Argh, this poll was hard! Picking what makes someone masculine or feminine was difficult, since I think of it more as a combination of things. It's like - what's the quote about porn, about how you can't really define it, but you know it when you see it? It's like that.
no subject
Date: 2011-06-10 08:15 pm (UTC)A large part of attraction, for me, is personality--but I'm definitely much more strongly attracted to men. I have, however, had several notable and fairly long-term crushes on women in my life (they were all straight, alas). I think if I ever sat down and tried to figure out my sexuality, I might find a label to better describe how I feel about it. For the time being, I generally go with "mostly straight". :P
My mother really wanted me to be a girly girl, but it just wasn't going to happen. I grew up with a brother and a bunch of boy cousins my age. I was always dirty, and dresses would just not do for playing football! But then, I also loved baby dolls and playing house.
Femininity is like porn! I like it. :D
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Date: 2011-06-08 04:53 am (UTC)I'm not interested in a lot of things considered stereotypically male, like sports. Although I do like to run and spend time outdoors--I just don't like to watch sports.
Between my gf and I, we joke that I am 'the girl' in the relationship. Not that I believe lesbian relationships need traditional gender roles, it's just the role I seem to fall into without trying. And I don't see anything wrong with being seen as 'the girl.'
As for emotions, as someone recovering from BPD, I'm not sure I can say my emotions are typical. But I do tend to wear my emotions on my sleeve.
I'm fairly decent with math and science when I have to be, but mostly arts and languages are what interest me. I would rather spend a day at an art museum or a lecture on linguistics than at, say, a monster truck rally or in a sports bar. I'm quite outdoorsy, but my idea of a good time is playing on the beach, not doing anything more extreme, like jetskis or something.
Um, this is all probably not that helpful. But if you have any questions for me, just ask!
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Date: 2011-06-08 12:16 pm (UTC)Just one thing I'd like to mention: I think stereotypical Hollywood masculinity/femininity is pretty narrowly defined, and I'm afraid most people will mostly adhere to that... so sex (in the biological sense) is going to play the paramount part in how reactions from others are conditioned (hence my picking it), but personally I think self-definition is the most important, and probably to some degree reflected in how a person wants to be presented/presents themselves at any given time - thought processes and emotional style don't quite fit into that, so I chose physical representation as the most fitting approximation even though it's terribly shallow, fuzzy and problematic.
(Case in point: I'm self-identifying as female and I'm biologically female. I'm currently wearing gorgeous lilac nailpolish and ran about in a skirt the other day, but I'm still not feeling terribly feminine (maybe a little) about myself, while my grandmother commented how nice it was to see me behave 'like the girl you are'. Argh. So there is a big divide between perception and self-image, not the least. I still think many people will actively cultivate how they want to be perceived.)
I'm sorry if this my making no sense whatsoever, and more if I managed to offend someone - feel free to call me out on it.
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Date: 2011-06-10 03:35 am (UTC)I feel pretty comfortable in my femininity as defined by my culture– I like dresses and skirts and clothes that show off my feminine attributes, for one thing– but I embrace an expanded definition of femininity. I'm very much into science and sports and dirt and blood and guts and the great outdoors; I almost never wear makeup or much in the way of jewelry, and being as strong and tough as your average, non-couch-potato guy is a point of pride with me. Many people would call these masculine attributes. I would disagree, but I wouldn't be upset about it. Statistics would say they're right.
As for people like myself, or other, more extreme cases, I say more power to them. Be yourself. Fuck the status quo. Masculinity and femininity is a personal thing, it can mean whatever the hell you want it to.
I am a biologist and I do believe that there are measurable differences between men and women, biologically speaking... with a caveat. It has to be understood that we're talking statistics, probability, and averages. The average woman is not going to be as tall as the average man, or as heavy or as strong or as fast. There are differences in how are brains are put together, in how we use them, in our body fat content and our life span and our tendency to take risks– on average. But the bell curves are sloppy. The differences between each individual person will contradict the statistics.
A lot about what "masculine" and "feminine" mean, especially in regards to behavior, are definitely culturally constructed. Which differences are cultural can be inferred by comparing and contrasting across different cultures.
...Thanks for the survey, this was fun! I think about these kinds of things a lot.