My brain provides not-quite-simultaneous translation.

[apple_pathways]

After scouring the internet for days looking for a US-based company that imported a particular tea blend I wanted to buy, I started looking at European websites. Most of them I dismissed out of hand, as they charged between 20 and 30 Euros for shipping; 27-40 USDs. Definitely not worth it for a few boxes of tea!

I decided to try one more website: that of a company based in Poland. Like many websites, they didn't specify upfront how much shipping cost. I started going through the process of filling in my details for the order, waiting to get to the point where you're asked to confirm your order and they finally tell you how much it's going to cost to ship. One of the options I was offered was designated "personal acceptance", and didn't involve any additional cost. They way I figured it, "personal acceptance" meant that I would "personally accept" the shipping charges; meaning, I would be asked to pay on delivery. Like a fool, I selected that option and confirmed my order without knowing exactly what shipping would cost. I started to panic over it in the next couple days, but figured: well, at least I'd get my tea out of it!



Yesterday I received a call from Poland about the order. Turns out "personal acceptance" meant that I would pick up the order myself. From Poland!

The proprietor wisely figured this was going to be unlikely, seeing that I lived on another continent. Despite the poor translation on the website, he spoke English very well, and I was able to explain to him that I am not, in fact, an idiot (well--most days), and that "personal acceptance" was probably not the best translation for the concept he was trying to convey. (I suggested "personal pick-up" as an alternative phrase, but I'm still not sure that's the best way to put it. English: s'hard, right? :P) He offered to cancel the order and refund my money.

Talking with this nice Polish man got me thinking, though, about how so many people from other countries speak multiple languages, and how most Americans: don't.

Which is not to lump all Americans together: we continue to be a nation of immigrants, many of whom continue to speak whatever language they were raised speaking, and pass that language on their children. It's more common than ever to be raised bilingual. Unlike the days when my grandparents and great grandparents immigrated here, holding on to your language and culture of birth is beginning to be considered natural and desirable. When my ancestors came here, being "American" meant assimilating: changing the spelling of our last name and removing the umlaut; teaching the children only English (and saving the German or Polish for "adults only" conversations the kids weren't meant to understand); and, in the case of my grandmother, allowing the school to change your child's name to a more acceptable, American-sounding alternative. (My grandmother was born Ladislawa, named for saint Ladislaus. The nuns at her school decided to call her Charlotte, and that's what she was known as for the rest of her life. My mother didn't even know that Charlotte wasn't her mother's original name until a few years before my grandmother died.)

So, Americans with immediate ties to other non-English speaking cultures/countries are likely to be bi/multilingual, and I know plenty of people who became fluent in another language through study. But why not more? Why is it so (relatively) uncommon?

It isn't as if we don't recognize the value of speaking other languages. Though the stereotypical, "Everyone else should just speak English" Americans still exist, they're far from the norm! It's standard for schools to offer foreign language courses, even at the elementary level, and all major universities (as far as I know) have a foreign language requirement. (For liberal arts programs, at least; which is ridiculous! Engineers are just as likely to need to know a foreign language as anyone else!) The Rosetta Stone software, that promises to work magic, is incredibly popular. (And incredibly expensive!)

So what gives? Do we not start early enough? {Though I was exposed to foreign languages in the fifth grade (age 10ish) we weren't asked to choose and seriously study a particular language until the eight grade (age 14).} Is it not intense enough? Or is there just not enough motivation?

I don't doubt that cultural imperialism plays a significant part. I was amazed to read, on a fandom anon meme, how big of a part reading and writing fanfiction played in many foreign fans acquisition of language skills! For English speakers, media consumption provides no big push to learn a new language: even Japanese anime and manga, possibly the biggest source of non-English-based canon fodder for fandom, is widely available in translation. (Not to mention, the fandoms themselves operate, to a large degree, in English.) If anyone can think of a non-English-language fandom big enough to rival the English juggernauts, I'd be interested to hear of it!



I think I'm going to come up with a poll to explore these ideas further. (Watch out for that! :P) In the meantime: any thoughts?

Comments

[inkdancer.livejournal.com]

I think part of the reason why children raised in so many other countries learn other languages and Americans do not is the following 2 things: 1. the historical significance of smallness in a country, and 2. selfishness.
1. Most first-world countries are smaller than America. There is only so much land to work in, only so many people to trade with. Historically and still today, trade with the outside world is an absolute must, and if you only speak your country's language then that isn't as easy to accomplish. The U.S., on the other hand, is huge, and could in the past be largely self-sufficient. Having been born from another country that already spoke our language and had more colonies around the world that also were learning it, we had all we needed (or so we thought) and didn't much want to bother with anyone else. Although this has become an invalid worldview since WWII, we largely have yet to reform our ways of thinking from being so Amerocentric.
2. Culturally we teach our children to be selfish. Some magical parents manage to avoid this, but by and large there are quite a lot of self-absorbed people in our country. This comes in tons of forms: materialism, ambition, politics, etc. But it boils down to most everyone wanting what they want, and being willing to screw someone else out of it. A culture that is so much about personal gratification cannot also support the idea of learning about and communicating with others.

Until we have a basic education system that begins to teach children a variety of languages as early as elementary school, I don't imagine that we will ever have many multilingual Americans. I can speak German nearly fluently and French stiffly but intelligibly, but I know that I'm among the minority.

I feel like Winnie the Pooh... "Think, think, think."

[metonomia.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure I have thoughts to actually add, but I agree completely with what you said. It's not that all Americans/English-speakers are dumb/privileged/presumptive, it's just that somewhere along the way, English became the language of acceptance and success in America (I suppose unsurprisingly, based on our British origins), and coupled with the whole American dream and cultural imperialism and a-melting-pot-but-only-if-you-can-read-our-English-recipe thing, it's not tough to see how we got the point where most Americans have only a passing familiarity with or academic/business knowledge of non-English language.

It's ironic, because I hate hate hate the idea that just because we're AMERICAN WOOOOT and just because so many other countries/cultures are willing to learn English as a second language in order to come here or to do business with America, that means that we can just sit around being lazy world-ruling Americans. Or whatever. Even my parents, who are very much about respecting everyone's diverse cultures and understanding rather than assimilating, didn't even begin to introduce my brothers and I to other languages until school required it. And then, you know, we do our little bit of Spanish and voila, you passed high school so you're good to go. My dad had this whole dream of me double majoring in Spanish and say, journalism and going on to do something with that, which is a cool idea, if not what I want to do - but his reasoning is that I'm "so good at languages." And, well, I'm not. I studied hard throughout middle and high school, so I passed Spanish classes well, and yes, I got pretty fluent for someone who is not at all fluent. But that's one language, learned wholly academically, that I never ever have to use in order to get on in life.

I guess what I'm saying (lol, I had thoughts after all, of course) is that I'm a really big fan of starting kids on a second, non-English language early in life, because the way I see it is that just because we've somehow gotten to the position where if you speak English as your native language, the rest of the world's cultures will come to you, that doesn't mean that you shouldn't go to them either.

Unfortunately, as the comment above noted, that's not a top priority at all in the American education system or even in the majority American value system (though I don't really know, I might be overgeneralizing there; as you said, we do continue to be a nation of many different cultures), so I don't see us becoming majority bilingual anytime soon. Which is too bad, because I really really regret, all the time, that I know so little of non-English languages and now I'm supposed to be heading off into the "real world" and I don't have enough time (or, it seems like I don't) to fix that.

[metonomia.livejournal.com]

whoops, I meant this as a reply to the original post.

[apple-pathways.livejournal.com]

I think the priorities about learning languages are changing. I tutor kids, and a lot of them have started learning a language at school years earlier than it was offered to me. Of course, it would be most beneficial to start instruction before the age of six, before formal education is legally required.

Read hrymyfaxe's reply below: I think she's nailed a big reason why it's so hard for Americans to learn foreign languages! There's just no push for it.

And I'm not talking about a push from schools, or the government, or commerce, or whatever: but a social push! Exposure to people and media in different languages.

[metonomia.livejournal.com]

Oooh, yes, I totally agree about the lack of social push! That's a really really good point. It's just not a socially enforced value, so...there you have it. :/

[apple-pathways.livejournal.com]

Crap! I got hrymfaxe's username wrong! :P

[apple-pathways.livejournal.com]

Your first point definitely contributes, in a huge way, to our country's tradition as a monolingual society! The relative lack of foreign language-speaking neighbors was undoubtedly a huge influence.

As to your second point, I'm not sure. I do see lots of children being raised to be self-absorbed (excuse me: "self-confidant" :P), but I don't think their parents are necessarily passing on the notion that they needn't bother learning other languages as part of that.

I work as a math tutor in an extremely affluent area. (Fortunately, half of my students come from the more normal, economically-average surrounding cities.) These kids are ridiculously privileged! And one of the privileges many of them have are private language tutors.

Last summer, I tutored two little boys whose parents brought over a student from Ecuador to live with them and teach the boys Spanish. I have a student now with a live-in nanny from China who's teaching him Mandarin. (There was a rather hilarious conversation where my boss asked: "Was that your babysitter?" and the boy replied, after staring at him for a moment: "No, au pair!")

(ETA: I don't think this is a bag thing they're doing for their children; it's just the socialist part of me is incredibly grumpy that this option is only available to them because of their wealth!)

A lot of the students go to private schools, where they're already studying a foreign language at the elementary level.

When I was in college, all of my friends from families with more money spent a semester abroad learning a foreign language.

If anything, speaking a foreign language has become a sign of privilege; a status symbol, for many.

I do think you're spot-on about the school system, though: languages need to be taught earlier, and on a higher level. By the time most schools start offering foreign languages, kids brains have passed the prime stage for language acquisition.

[inkdancer.livejournal.com]

Certainly foreign language is a sign of affluence; to some extent, in England and America, it always has been. Being able to speak French or Latin was a privelege of the wealthy and a fashionable talent. In the past, the poor never had the time for that sort of learning; now, they rarely have the opportunity.

And I don't think parents deliberately teach children that foreign languages are useless. I simply think that as long as our culture promotes the concepts of "USA #1" and "do what makes you feel good, don't worry about anything else" to the current extreme, most people will hardly bother looking outside their own bubble of experience.

[apple-pathways.livejournal.com]

That whole "USA #1" bullshit where "patriotism" involves rooting for your country as if it were a sports team drives me nuts. Blech!

(And that's all I got out before my brain melted. I need to get to bed! Until tomorrow...)

[hrymfaxe.livejournal.com]

I have thought about this a lot too! I think there are many components as to why some people tend to speak more than one language and others don't, and also why some are better at it than others.

I'll take the example of myself. I'm Danish, and if I ever want to travel out into the world or just participate nominally outside the borders of my own country learning another language is completely mandatory. So there is a good reason to learn. And furthermore, all movies and series coming from abroad remain in their original form. There is no syncronisation, everything is subtitled. So we hear foreign language on a daily basis and you would be hard put to find someone who didn't at least speak a little of a foreign language.

This is not necessarily the case for English speakers and French, Spanish etc. I think especially the fact of hearing other languages every day is a lot of help regarding vocabulary and accent...

[apple-pathways.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the exposure to other languages and other media must be huge! That's sorely lacking in this country.

I could easily spend my entire life without setting foot outside my country (and Canada, which is just an hour away): not because I want to, but because foreign travel is so expensive, it's just not realistic for so many people.

[jinxed-wood.livejournal.com]

Personally, I think it's because somewhere along the way English became the Lingua Franca of the world and if you have English, chances are you're going to be able to make yourself understood just about anywhere in the world. That's not to say there aren't other languages spoken by more people (Mandarin, lets say) but they are less global.

Technically, Ireland is Bilingual, but I was brought up in an English speaking area, so I only started to learn Gaeilge when I was 5 and I started French at 12 - but I must admit my language skills are poor, it was never a facility that came easily to me.

But I also think being an English speaker makes me lazy. It's pretty much the default language for international communication, so while I'd like to have better French and Gaeilge, it isn't actually necessary

[apple-pathways.livejournal.com]

That's a good point. For so many people with English as a first language, the idea of speaking another language is nice, but not necessarily essential. (Or even that useful!) So it becomes more of a "Oh, I should get around to that...when I have the time" sort of thing that never gets done.

I didn't start seriously studying a language (Spanish) until 14, and even though I went further with it than most, I'm still nowhere near fluent.

[tierfal.livejournal.com]

I personally think it's to some degree a matter of historical tradition. The British Empire owned virtually everyone and everything; then, post-WWII, America owned culture. English English English English ENGLISH. Radio? American invention. Television? American invention. Internet? Bingo. English is the language of popular culture, and it's become the language of business as well -- computers? Yeah-huh. Obviously globalization has begun to require a much wider worldview, but English still vastly predominates in the marketplace and in the dissemination of information.

Not that I think that is, necessarily, a good thing; I think it makes English-speaking natives (okay, Americans) culturally insensitive and whatnot. And I think there are a lot of REALLY awesome things about learning other languages that you just won't get speaking English alone -- insight into its roots is just the beginning; brain exercise; perspective, etc etc. Especially because English itself is such a disorganized, overwhelming mashup of other languages, which I will admit I find delightful.

But then, this is coming from a person who took two semesters of Swedish, which is one of the least-useful foreign languages it is physically possible to learn in the economic/cultural/political world we live in. XD

I figure that in a few hundred years, our future!counterparts will probably be asking this question in Mandarin. XD''

[hrymfaxe.livejournal.com]

OMG LOL SWEDISH! ONLY BEATEN IN USELESSNESS BY DANISH AND NORWEGIAN! (we all understand each other btw - it's like a subclass of loser languages.)

[tierfal.livejournal.com]

IKR!! Before I forgot half of my rudimentary Swedish (...uh, hej!), I could read half of the rudimentary Danish that crossed my path when we shared our classroom with the *seven* Danish 1 students for a day. XD

[apple-pathways.livejournal.com]

You think 'Swedish' is bad? TWO SEMESTERS OF LATIN, YO! (WTF was I thinking? :P)

[tierfal.livejournal.com]

At least Latin is really excellent for learning word roots and stuff! (I always kind of meant to take it, myself... right, "initiative." That's the word that's not in my vocabulary.) Swedish is pretty much English on a bender, for cold people. XD

[jinxed-wood.livejournal.com]

*Waves* 13 years of Irish!

[tierfal.livejournal.com]

Hahaha. XD I think you have me beat with the longevity, but that's also on the list of languages I've always admired...

If I get into the program I want to in Wales, I intend to learn Welsh. Partly just so that I can start using W as a vowel. :'D

[jesterjoker.livejournal.com]

I thrive on other languages.

The people above me mentioned the reasons I can think of; the US is bloody enormous, it isn't a big impetus for many people here, English is already established all over the place, etc.

I suspect I'm quite the outlier in this area, particularly in the US. As I mentioned in the poll, I've watched tons of anime and been extremely exposed to lots and lots of Japanese. I've seen so much of it that sometimes I question WHY I devoured it, but I've delved deeper into the why (and become more picky) so I don't feel as odd.

Yes, I've seen that much. I used to be a huge anime nerd. :D

Half of the music I listen to comes from German-speaking European nations or Scandinavia now which was quite the bizarre shift when I noticed it. I used to listen to tons of Japanese. So German is higher on my list - and my grandpa's first language was German, to boot.

Why I'm an outlier is that if some form of media doesn't have another language in it /somewhere/ - or at least some aspect of gibberish, chaos, surrealism, etc that I can't quite understand - it has a very hard time holding my interest.

I had three years of Spanish in high school and I tend to say I have another on top of that for my reading of El Pais.

I just need to find more weird things in otro lenguas!