America vs. the World

[apple_pathways]

I really need to stop reading Anon memes. *slaps own wrist*

The one I've been reading lately has run out of fandom wank to talk about, and it's now GrudgeMatch 2010: U.S. vs. THEM! I haven't read most of the hatestorm on there, but I did start (innocently) reading a thread wherein someone (I suppose innocently) asked what everyone thinks about people who went to Oxford or Cambridge. At first, the replies were along the lines of: "I don't care where they went to uni" or "Most people from Oxbridge are dicks but some of them are OK."

Then someone compared the American university system to the sixth form in the UK, and all hell broke loose: Americans defending our education system (while simultaneously denigrating other education systems) and everyone else (mostly British) slamming the American system in snide and irritating ways. There's a handful of people trying to have a reasonable debate (contrast and compare: this is better because, this is worse because), but they're naturally drowned out by the chorus of lunatics.

I was tempted to reply several times, on each side of the debate: it's demonstrably accurate to say that the U.S. system of education falls far behind those of other countries. On the other hand, you can't paint the entire country with the same brush, as we don't really have national standards and our education is controlled by local governments (part of the problem), so there are many amazing U.S. schools out there. Despite the flaws in our system, the U.S. does still manage to churn out important research, technology, innovation, art, etc.

I held back and didn't say anything, though. Why bother? I don't want to be associated with the obnoxious Americans who root for our country as if it were a sports team, nor do I want to be associated with the apologists who insist the first group is "making us look bad" and "THIS IS WHY THE REST OF THE WORLD HATES US!"

The rest of the world doesn't hate us! (Well, in general; specific countries/people hate us.) The rest of the world has opinions about how we behave and use our influence on other countries and economies. They have opinions about how we use our military, it being the largest in the world. The rest of the world would like to be able to engage us in intelligent negotiation and debate as if we were a nation of FRICKIN' ADULTS.

By and large, I think we are a nation of Frickin' Adults (how's that for a quote?); I just wish all of the discussion and debate wouldn't skew towards the shoutiest people with the most extreme opinions.

Comments

[apple-pathways.livejournal.com]

The inequity of U.S. schools is heart-breaking. I grew up in a cushy Metro Detroit suburb with national Blue Ribbon schools (that's what they called them 10 years ago when I graduated), so I had a fairly excellent education. However, as you said, move 5-10 miles in any direction, and it could be a completely different story.

I have my own opinions - I think in the US there's too much leverage to get your degree. You can just keep taking courses and accruing credit until you get a degree, leaving outsiders with the impression any old idiot can get one.

I've never heard this criticism before, and I can see how it would devalue a U.S. degree in the eyes of the rest of the world.

Of course, not all universities work the way you describe: I was kicked out of my top tier university for failing; I transferred to a less prestigious school that would give me more leeway. Naturally, I'm incredibly grateful to be given multiple chances! I was not ready to pick a career at 16 or 18; I didn't know what I wanted to do until I was in my early 20s.

(Though you don't want to know how deep in debt I am from the process! I paid dearly for my second chances; the UK is definitely superior in not bankrupting its young people before they even have a chance to set out in the world.)

Anyway, thanks for replying to my rant! I get so frustrated whenever these type of debates crop up. There's so much I want to say, and so few people interested in listening. I'll have to remember to stick to my little corner of the internet, where people are reasonable and willing to have intelligent discussions!

[planejane.livejournal.com]

Sorry, my comment was all over the place. But it is such a huge topic. I hate the bickering. It's so pointless. I think if you want to engage in debate you have to be prepared to listen to someone else with grace and consider your response, no matter how passionately you feel.

We should talk over a glass of wine some time. :)

[apple-pathways.livejournal.com]

Absolutely! All serious discussions should be served with vino. ;) I love finding people willing to discuss "issues". :D